Crucifixion

[callistahogan]

As you can probably imagine, I had to do a post on this topic eventually.

As you all know--or all should know--yesterday is the day commonly associated with Jesus's resurrection, and last Friday the date commonly known as Good Friday, the day Jesus died on the cross for our sins. As such, there were apparently quite a few shows on the Bible and the events written in the Bible on the Discovery Channel last night, and I caught this show on the crucifixion.

And they were vicious.

There were apparently many ways of crucifixion during the Ancient Roman times, whether it was by the cross (which is the most universally-known form of crucifixion) or by simply running them through with a spear, sticking the spear in the ground and leaving them to die... in plain sight. The Ancient Romans were all about power and torture, and making themselves out to be the biggest bullies in the playground, to use a metaphor.

It was scary, seeing what they did. It seemed like crucifixion was purely made to prolong the process of death as long as possible, and that's exactly what it was for, according to the show I watched. It was absolutely scary, seeing them impale people through their stomachs, leaving them to bleed to death, and seeing men and even woman get scourged and then hung on a cross to die, nails driven into the hands and feet so that they could hardly even move. Not to mention the fact that they had to carry their cross beams to the crucifixion site which, more often that not, was more than a mile away from the city.

In my Christian point of view, the fact that Jesus had to go through this type of torture just makes it all the worse, not that it wasn't absolutely terrible before.

I mean, during one of the Jewish revolts in... 4 A.D., I believe, the Ancient Romans crucified over six thousand men and woman along the roads. One person is bad enough, three people is absolutely terrible, but six thousand? I don't understand why people would ever want to cause so much harm to another human being, I really don't. It's absolutely terrible.

I'm still reeling from what I saw, frankly. It was terribly bloodthirsty. I am glad that, for all intents and purposes, we've gotten out of that crucifixion stage, even though there are terrible ways to kill nowadays. I just can't believe that Jesus went through all that torture, and not because He did anything wrong, either--He was betrayed, and He died on the cross for our sins. He willingly went through all of that torture... for us. And I find it terrible that we don't recognize that sacrifice...

But I'll stop this post now, considering it's gotten fairly long winded. It just goes to show how much I can ramble on and on about a topic if it interests me enough, doesn't it?

Comments

[alexseanchai]

I'm almost positive I'm correct because when one says 'die', one almost always means it either in the literal sense of physical death or in a joking sense as in Dead$Chatperson, and the joking sense plainly does not apply. But very well.

I assume you believe hell exists and some people spend eternity there. Why would a god who loves everyone do that? Nothing we do in our finite span on earth can possibly deserve infinite punishment. I can't imagine even Hitler deserving punishment outlasting six million reruns of a horrible death in the gas chamber.

[callistahogan.livejournal.com]

Listen, Beth.

You are not God.

I am not God.

Humankind is not God.

What we do does *not* in *any* way reflect what God would do. The mere fact that we sin proves that we do not do what God does. We cannot base God on what we do. Instead, we have to base God outside of our perceptions of what a living, breathing, talking being should do, and instead think of what *God* is. And since we cannot understand God, we cannot say "Yes, he meant this" or "No, he meant that." I have my own theory, you have yours. We all have different interpretations of the Biblical text in Genesis. I am not saying your view is wrong, yet you are saying you are surely right which, by default, means that I am wrong. I do not pretend to know who God is. I'm making a shot in the dark by even debating this.

And, since this debate seems to be rapidly dissipating into a "I'm going to prove you wrong!" discussion, I think it would be wise if we stopped discussing this for now. Perhaps we can take this up again eventually, but I think we've discussed it enough. We're not going to change each others' opinions, after all.

[alexseanchai]

Does that translate to I stumped you?

[callistahogan.livejournal.com]

No, I'm sorry.

You did not stump me. I, unfortunately, need to back out of this before I explode and, as such, retreated. In fact, I know the exact answer to your question, but since you will most likely not consider what I say, I think it's wise that we back out of this.

Just because I back out of a debate does not automatically mean that you won. It just means that I do not have the time or the patience to debate anymore, not that I do not wish to.

[alexseanchai]

I want to hear your answer, then. Doesn't have to be now.

[callistahogan.livejournal.com]

And you will hear it. Just not right now, because we've been at this for *four* hours and I'm getting tired of debating for the moment.

You will have to remind me tomorrow or in a few days or something, though.

[eirwen555.livejournal.com]

Keep in mind that said God is also the God of Noah's Ark who "saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time"(Genesis 6: 5) and was so grieved that he made man on the earth that he wiped out all creations save those in Noah's Ark in the Flood. Just because He is a loving God doesn't mean He doesn't despise sin and punishes those who commit them. Sin leads to death, and there's no way for us to escape the consequences of sin except through Jesus, the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and no man comes to the Father but through Him.

[alexseanchai]

I can buy (at least for the purpose of argument) that everyone on the planet except Noah had done so much wrong that they all deserved death. I can't buy that any wrong can be infinite, or that anyone can commit an infinite number of wrongs in a finite span of time, which together means that I can't buy that anyone's cumulative wrongdoing can be anything but finite. I also can't buy that any finite wrongdoing deserves infinite punishment.

[eirwen555.livejournal.com]

It's not about how many sins you commit. We are *all* sinners. And the penalty for sin is both physical death and spiritual death in the form of separation from God. It's simple. You (a generic you, fyi) denounce God. Eventually, God is going to let you be and give you what you wanted--separation from Him.

[alexseanchai]

Which is, again, infinite punishment for finite wrongdoing.

[eirwen555.livejournal.com]

Like I said in the other post, let's just agree to disagree and be done with it. It's clear neither side is going to change opinion or back off should this continue.
(Just saying though, in the end, it's what He thinks that matters, not what we think. Us to eternity is less than an ant to us. Just be glad God cares *at all*.)

[alexseanchai]

Yeah, but it's fun to get a clearer picture of what the other side believes. And you may have missed the bit where I don't believe your god or any other exists.

[eirwen555.livejournal.com]

Believe what you will then. In the mean time, I have a Heart of Darkness to examine... *grumbles*